29 April 2008

In Life and Politics...

If you HATE...
If you are negative...
If you surround yourself with destructive attitudes...
Others take notice.
Positive, productive people avoid that behavior, and those that live it.

Watch with me as this story unfolds...
Indeed, "The chickens ARE coming home to roost!"

19 comments:

nec Timide said...

Hmmm... let me guess. Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

What is keeping those chickens anyway?

Rodolfo said...

The problem that I see is YES Wright makes controversial statements BUT the media seems to overlook the GOOD that he has done. This is a man that lived through the 60s and all this hoopla surrounding him is another example of where we are politically as a country: STUCK IN THE 60S.

The media is portraying Barack as if he agrees with EVERYTHING his former pastor makes statements on. Well let's assume that's true. In the years that they've known each other has Barack proposed any sort of legislation that could be portrayed as racist or bigoted? NO. Has he ever stated that we should NOT be fighting terrorists in Afghanistan because they brought our Towers down? NO.

This is why this whole "controversy" is so scandalously ridiculous. The media wants us to judge Barack based on *snippets* of this former Marine's sermons and completely ignore any good deeds that the two have done.

You see this is one of the premises that Barack is running on. One of his strengths as a leader is his ability to listen to OTHER VIEWPOINTS no matter how wrong it may be. He may disagree with the viewpoint but he also understands he doesn't have to be disagreeable about it. That's how he's trying to change the national discourse in this country. All this nonsense about disowning, rejecting, condemning, distancing, etc is silly because no matter what your opinion of his pastor may be the guy has the right to speak his mind. So Barack distancing himself from someone simply exercising his right to free speech doesn't make much sense. If the Reverend had committed a heinous crime then obviously the criticisms would hold much more teeth but he hasn't. Rev. Wright has served his country and community well and that's what the media doesn't want to tell us.

I listen to conservative radio all the time. But I must say I have to balance it out with liberal blogs because when forming a conclusion of my own I need to hear all sides. My assessment is that both sides have legitimate concerns and even legitimate solutions. But that doesn't even matter. The problem is the dogmatic nature that the political climate has become. You're either with us or against us. This philosophy has served us no good.

So is Barack a black racist? Are his values so out of touch with most regular Americans when it comes to family, church, and community? Is he a secret Muslim because his name sure sounds like Osama. No No and No

The citizens are allowing the MSM to dictate the national dialog over manufactured controversies. Shame on the media and us for taking the bait.

Just my opinion.

Greybeard said...

Lemme see...
I think I've heard most of that before, haven't I?

R, have you ever heard of a man named Adolf Hitler? The folks in Germany thought he was wonderful. Some watching from outside Germany thought he was wonderful... Charles Lindbergh to name one. He did great WORKS for Germany during the early thirties. But his foundation was faulty...
His foundation was separatist, Germany is superior stuff. I'll repeat what I've asked before in a different way this time:
With a wave of my wand, I make you Barack Obama! Would you have exposed both your daughters to the filth in that Church their entire lives?
Not me. I think his judgment is terrible.
We'll soon see if most voters agree with you, or with me.

Rodolfo said...

Re: Hitler comparison

No comparison. Hitler's political motives where shaped by the disillusionment of Germany having lost WWI. His philosophy wasn't shaped by the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. It was shaped by fascism and Aryan racism. This is what Hitler believed and it's what he preached in his rallies. Watch any of Barack's townhall meetings or rallies and show me evidence of anything he says on the stump that is even remotely fascist or racist? Take your time.

Barack didn't go to church to worship Wright. He went to church to worship God. What Barack was attracted with the most in that Church was the ministry that it provided to the community. Support for prison inmates, care for the sick, teenage outreach, etc. As a community organizer the church was his only way into that community.

I fail to see why the Church is being labeled racist by the MSM when it is has a predominantly white membership. Now it's true that most of the members in this particular church were black but that's because most people that live in that corner of Chicago were...black. They don't exclude whites nor do they ever say they are better than whites. It depends on how racism is defined. Racism is a belief that one group is innately superior to ALL others and therefore has the right to rule. By that definition this racist church label doesn't stick. Certain members of the black community will ALWAYS be pissed off about their genesis in this country. Wright is one of them. Barack's vision is more hopeful because he experienced America differently.

Now I don't claim to have seen a full sermon of this man yet and don't really care to. But I've heard that apart from the emphasis on the youtube snippets it's not nearly as controversial as any other political commentary you might expect from others. But I did see extended clips on the Bill Moyers interview. The context that he used with respect to "damning" America was an interpretation of what can be found in any household Bible. Now I'm a Bible reader. You can't tell me that there is isn't any filth that can be found in those *holy* pages. Well I've found many over the years. Still doesn't make any sense to me to this day but it doesn't take away from Jesus's preaching from the Sermon on the Mount. That's what I focus on. I can point to passages in the Bible that clearly show God or his followers *fallibility* but the Golden Rule is what I choose to take from it.

The bottom line is that humans have a stake in one other regardless of race, gender or religion and we need to find a way to bridge these differences in order to survive. From the beginning of time survival has and always will be the name of the game. Barack's position from Day 1 has always been about finding common ground. It's embedded in his biological make-up because he has a little bit of everyone in him. And to conclude that all that he is can be reduced to a soundbite (words that are not even his) is what i find questionable.

Greybeard wrote: We'll soon see if most voters agree with you, or with me.

My sense is that the country is half and half with a 5-7% margin of error. That's how polarized this country has been for over a decade and I never for one second believed it could change overnight? But I think economics will trump people's biases this time around. I could very well likely vote for John McCain if he offers the best way forward economically but I have yet to see anything of substance from him.

Economics almost always dictate the politics. Not my rule but that's the reality. But it makes sense because our economy will determine the quality of our lives and ultimately our survival. The way out of this economic mess is by being united as a country. We'll never avoid having different views but we must find common ground. From my vantage point Barack is offering that kind of leadership AND along with some pretty reasonable fiscal proposals. By the way I don't think the people of China and India are discussing sermons right now. They're out there fighting for a chunk of the pie and pulling the American Dream right from under us. Meanwhile our country is obsessed with what Wright will *say* next?

You write that you're an old man Greybeard and that tells me you've lived a full life. I on the other hand feel like I'm just getting started. Maybe my hope and idealism will fade away when I'm as old as you. Or perhaps my skepticism will somehow change into cynicism. I can be naive sometimes but I'm old enough. I just want what's best and the most practical way of getting there.

I love this country for the opportunities it has provided me and my family. I want to leave it better than I found it. All controversies aside who do you think has the best proposals that'll help America compete with the rest of the world? Since this is election season who do you think has the *Right Stuff* to be President. Doesn't have to be any of the remaining candidates.

Greybeard said...

For Rodolfo and other Obama supporters, surprised and upset with what they consider to be a Media lynching of their candidate,
an educational, if lengthy post here, with equally educational comments.
Those that think Jeremiah Wright is not a BIG DEAL need to re-evaluate...
Folks of both political stripes seem to think the incident is worth consideration.

Rodolfo said...

Greybeard wrote: Folks of both political stripes seem to think the incident is worth consideration.

That's painfully obvious Greybeard. But WHY should it? Some people have written off this election and have decided not to vote until the next one. They have every right to do that. But we still need solutions to our economic problems. Anyone can say this Wright issue is a BIG DEAL. But again WHY? Is it because this is the first time we're seeing a black man say crazy things from a pulpit? Men like Falwell and Hagee do it all the time yet nobody calls them or their congregation on it with equal fervor. So I stand by my assertion that this is a manufactured controversy. I just don't see how the media coverage of Wright is gonna help our economic situation.
Newt Gingrich said it best last night on the Daily Show:

"Jeremiah Wright is a complex American"

Aren't we all? Nothing gonna change the fact this country is mixed. But the question that remains is how is this conversation gonna fix our economy? And if it won't then how do we go about fixing it?

All our economic indicators tell me we have problems. The reasons for our predicament are also painfully obvious. As a mechanic first and a politician second my mentality is that if it's broken how do I fix it?

If Barack is not the guy to set the agenda for our country then who is?

Greybeard said...

I just don't know how to make this more simple...
The issue is worth consideration because of Ayres, Dohrn, Rezko, Wright, and whatever cockroach happens to crawl out of the Obama rathole next. (And knowing Chicago politics, I bet there are some coming.)
No matter how hard Obama supporters try to pretend this is a "Jeremiah Wright" problem, it's not.
It's a Barack Obama- judgment problem.

In response to setting the agenda for our country, let me say this:
As in the past several elections, my choices of candidates absolutely stinks this time. It'll still be a choice between bad and worse.
Why can we not do better than this?!
Barack Obama has indicated in more ways than one that he has Marxist/Socialist leanings. I'll say it again... as we know more about him we'll like him less and less. Just saw a new poll... his favorable ratings are now below 50%. Let's see if he can tap dance fast enough to recover!

Greybeard said...

"For whatever reason Obama joined Trinity United in the first place, he has a lot of explaining as to why he stayed there, and exposed his children to Wright's poison, particularly after Wright's "clarifying" comments yesterday at the National Press Club. Perhaps "bad judgment" is the answer. No more. No less."

-Interesting comments at the left-leaning "TNR"
article, "Why'd Obama Join Trinity in the First Place?"

Di said...

If Barack is not the guy to set the agenda for our country then who is?

Who is? I think what we've hit on is that NO politician is going to 'fix our country'.

But I have lived as long, or nearly as long, ha, as 'Greybeard', and I understand where he's coming from. I don't feel it's just the media that has created this stir. I think we are experiencing reverse racism...I feel, imho, that Obama has become the platform for this whether he intended to or not. I think that the media is proving the point by allowing us to see who has influenced him...Wright truly represents that mentality and a step back in time, not forward. If Obama does NOT agree with Wright, then why did he choose his church? I do find that choice to be at least a reflection of Obama.

I did listen to a bit more of what Wright had to say. I was reminded of the voice of the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons. He drones on and on about things I've heard all too often in the past. I say it's time to move on....and I seriously believe that Obama will take us back to a time that we've fought to leave behind. Maybe it will be by default, but I don't think America is mature enough yet to let it go, and I think this is where 'experience' with the past provides the ability to see this. Unfortunately, for Obama, that is what he seems to represent.....especially through the company he keeps!

Rodolfo said...

Di-I'm not looking for a messiah. I just want someone to set the most practical agenda and we'll go from there. I think based on *polls* we can all conclude that the agendas set forth by the current administration has been a disaster for our country. And I don't expect the economy will turn around whether we get a Democrat or Republican in there. The first four years will be about reversing and containing the damage. By the way what's reverse racism? Can you explain that? And I don't understand how we need to move on as a country and then say America is not mature enough to do so. Are you saying *you're* not mature enough?

Greybeard-How is Obama Marxist? The guy believes in free markets and capitalism. And he's socialist because he wants everyone to have affordable health *insurance*? 50 million uninsured Americans is a problem and I don't hear anyone else offering solutions.

If the media decides to play six degrees of separation with every single candidate that runs for office NOBODY will get elected.

Greybeard said...

R-
You do know that all this talk about taking from the rich and re-distributing the wealth comes straight out of the Marxist playbook, don't you?
Go here for further education.
He is, by definition, a Marxist.

Rodolfo said...

Yes greybeard I understand your point. But capitalism has it's flaws. Do you think it's fair for the average joe blow American to lose his pension and health care while the ceo gets a retirement bonus when the company goes under? Or what about when oil companies record billions of dollars in profits while you and I are forced to drive/fly less? That may seem to be oversimplifying the economics behind it all but there's no doubt that *some* ceo's out there are greedy. I don't mind the government going after these greedy men.

Greybeard said...

So which type of government are you recommending to me sir?
The one we have has done virtually nothing for the past two years, (and hearing most of what this democrat Congress had planned for us, I'm glad.)
What worries me is that our government has made slaves of a large portion of our populace. I hate to keep beating this like a dead horse, but what little I know about Sociology and Psychology indicates you get more of what you reward. When we reward unmarried pre-teens for getting pregnant, we get more of it. When we reward people for staying uneducated and going on welfare, we get more of that. Shouldn't we be rewarding those behaviors we want MORE of?

But we'll be rewarding more bad behavior if we elect either democrat candidate.
Are you telling me you think that's good for those individuals... good for the country as a whole?

Yes, the present situation with CEO remuneration is out of hand. We need to focus a very bright light on that and make changes. But I absolutely DO NOT want to install conditions which make folks like you and me not strive to become CEO's of our own prosperous companies, and that seems to be the direction we're headed.
You write well and seem to have a good mind...
What's your recommendation?

Rodolfo said...

Well I'm with you on all that Greybeard. Of course we need to reward those that do things right. But I'm concerned with those that do things right yet seem to still can't get ahead economically. These people are not asking for a handout. They know they have to work hard just like everyone else. But their voices and concerns get drowned out by lobbyists and political insiders whose only concern is squeezing the most out of consumers.

Of course we shouldn't reward bad behavior. But we shouldn't punish those that make honest mistakes either. Now in this area I focus more on prevention. WHY is that teen getting pregnant? WHY are those kids uneducated? This is where I absolutely commend Barack for stating the obvious on the stump.

"PARENTS NEED TO PARENT!"

Where are the parents of these kids and why do they allow their kids to be out late at night and skipping out on their homework? Why is the TV and video game set on every minute of the day. The church, schools and local govt can only do so much but for some reason parenting became a part-time job in our country. Parents need to set the tone by instilling responsibility in their children. Along with emphasizing the responsibility of parents Barack wants to focus on pre-school programs more. He believes that part of the reason so many kids *stay* uneducated is because we're not setting up their foundation early on. Kids need to learn their colors and letters BEFORE starting school. He also understands that teachers not only have to be paid more but there must be some sort of quality assurance in place so we continue to attract and retain the best teachers. Did you know that 90% of teachers that teach science in our schools have never taken advanced science classes in college? No wonder we're lagging behind the rest of the world.

catnapping said...

If Clinton gets the democratic ticket, I may have to make a deal with my dad.

He's so conservative, he's fascist, and I'm so liberal, I'm commie...

The thing is, I hate Clinton. And he hates McCain. I'm tempted to make a deal with him: I'll forego voting for president, if you forego voting for president.

That way we cancel each other out.

I love choppers. I'm also prior military - didn't retire. I blew my knee out, and had to get out on a medical. I was a 91C - NCOIC of Community Health Nursing for a couple of years. I loved the Army. I loved wearing the uniform...was socialized that way. My father was a 30 year man in the USAF (joined when it was still the Army Air Corps.)

If women had been allowed to be chopper pilots back in the early 70s, it's an MOS I would gladly have grabbed.

Greybeard said...

So Rodolfo, answer me this:
Which of the two parties is most responsible for our terrible schools?
Which of the two parties is endorsed by the N.E.A. EVERY SINGLE ELECTION?
Hmmm?
Do you think Barack Obama is gonna buck that endorsement?
Ha!

Open your eyes my friend, and face reality. Children having children... it's a fact of life these days. Young girls know if they get pregnant they'll get $XXXX from the government and they'll be able to get out from under their Mother's control. They know if they have the second child they'll get $ZZZZZ, and with food stamps they'll be able to afford a cell phone. (This information was communicated by an inner-city grammar school teacher who knows these girls well.)
How do we break this cycle?
You're right, education is a big part of the answer. But in order to change the way we educate kids, you're gonna have to take control of schools away from unions like the N.E.A.
We are rapidly approaching the point where we can no longer afford BIG-Government socialist programs like Social Security and Medicaid... and other welfare entitlements.

Barack Obama won't control these programs, he'll establish more of 'em.
He's a nice guy, but he ain't gonna be President.
Make up your mind to take a stand, and pressure whoever does become President to start getting Big Government under control!

Flightfire said...

I'd like to jump in on the conversation. I think the most important thing that Obama is saying that neither Hillary or McCain is stressing is stopping special interests in Washington. Nothing is ever going to get accomplished when our politicians can be bought and sold like cattle. Doesn't matter if it's health care, energy, the war, whatever. When did it become ok for politicians to accept money or gifts for anything (i.e. Lobbying)? They are there to serve the public interest. We pay them a generous salary and they shouldn't be able to receive anything until after they are no longer on the government payroll. They can listen to complaints and meet with influential people, but to accept gifts, money or favors from those people is nothing less than complete corruption. Yet it's seen as ok. Obama paired with Democratic congress are the only ones who have any chance of fixing that. Even then, the Republicans are going to struggle mightily.

As far as the CEO compensation and taking money from the rich, there is a balance that has to be struck. Right now that balance is strongly tipped toward the rich, which is unfair. Warren Buffet says he pays less taxes than most of his employees. When compared to the 1970's, CEO's are paid thousands of times more than the average worker. The tax brackets for the highest earners have actually decreased over the last 30 years. The fundamental aspect of fairness in the workplace has been undermined by Reaganomics. Someone has to step in a restore the balance and fairness, and the only one to do that is Government. Free markets are great, but there are rules that have to be imposed on those markets, otherwise injustice prevails. It's not Marxist, it's just the truth. It's also why politics has to be divorced from the influence of money, so that those rules can be set and enforced without undue influence.

Last, but not least, is the rewarding bad behavior comment. No we don't want to reward bad behavior. No one does. But we also don't want to leave people out in the cold who need help. What's the greater injustice: Taking money from a rich man to pay for someone's welfare check who doesn't need it, or leaving a family stranded in the cold with no food or shelter but letting the rich man keep his money? This is also a balance that I believe needs to be tipped on the side of erring towards the hungry family.

I'm actually a conservative centerist. I want things to be the way they were back in the 60's. I seem like I'm on the left of all these issues, but I realize that like everything else, life is about balance. We have tipped the balances way too far to the right for the last decade and now it's time to bring them back or we will suffer a much longer period of depression and suffering than I care think about.

p.s. I won't be able to respond for a while again, because I have finals to study for. Good conversation though.

Rodolfo said...

I'm not going to get sucked into Dems vs Repub. Both parties suck! They both answer to lobbyists and corporations that fund their campaigns and not the American people. Playing that left-right-merry-go-round game won't solve anything because the issues are too complex.

Do you really believe that the only reason children are having babies is to get handouts? Now it doesn’t defy logic to believe that there are twisted kids like you described out there but do you think handouts is the underlying reason? Maybe. But this isn’t a new phenomenon. It’s not like there’s a switch in people’s heads that tell them they need to elect Democrats to get more welfare. How do you explain Britney Spears and her kid sister having babies? They sure don't need handouts from the govt. So you’re telling me that reality is teenagers are having sex. Well that’s a revelation. God designed us to procreate and when it happens we shouldn't be surprised. The media's obsession and glorification with Brittney Spears don't help. Nobody is holding the media accountable on what and how they report because we’ve been accustomed to their mediocrity.

What we need to instill in kids is *responsibility*. Having babies in order to get welfare is *IRRESPONSIBLE* because there’s no sacrifice in that. Parents are not doing their jobs if they themselves don't understand the meaning of responsibility. Yes the govt plays a part with their *rewarding* of bad behavior in some cases but I doubt we have any data that unequivocally proves that these kids are *only* doing it to make money. I think it's more complex than that.

I’ve already acknowledged you have a legitimate right to question Barack’s associations but let’s not lose sight of the other issues. Our foreign policy is draining our economy *and* our big govt socialist programs. When we have to borrow from the Chinese to fund our programs because we’re spending billions of dollars a day in Iraq then that’s a problem. But the solution is *NOT* to get rid of Social Security or Medicaid. These are *basic* services that most western civilized nation have in place for their citizens. Ours is not perfect but to get rid of them completely is extreme and impractical. The reason we don’t have the money for these programs is because of our investment in Iraq. Has our presence in Iraq made us safer? Has it weakened Al Qaeda? Why has our standing and worldwide support gone down? Our invasion of Iraq was a strategic mistake and has neither helped our economy nor captured Bin Laden. Something’s gonna have to give and if you believe that the retiring baby boomers who’ve diligently paid their taxes throughout their lives choose instead to have social security eliminated instead of holding the Iraqi Parliament accountable then that is something that'll be interesting to see. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I've been wrong before.

The media has conditioned us to immediately draw battle lines amongst each other. The pundits play on our fears and cynicism without offering common sense solutions to our problems. Everyone in the MSM (Fox, CNN, NBC, ABC) are all perpetuating this myth that in order to get a job done you have to be either a liberal or a conservative. This is why many Americans are supporting Barack. This is why he’s getting small $10 donations from poor college kids like me. People are beginning to speak out against the ineffectiveness of left-right politics and Barack is the best guy to transcend that. But of course the pundits and media don’t care because they love the drama.

So let’s continue playing six degrees of Barack Obama with them shall we. Let’s start with me. I’m only two degrees off so it’ll be quick.

One of my favorite shows is the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Stewart has interviewed Barack Obama in the past.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding.

Barack is now accountable to *EVERYTHING* that I have ever posted online. He must now denounce and reject everything I was wrong on. He must also continue to further distance himself from me. He must return all of the $70 that I’ve contributed to his campaign. Oh it gets better…. Rodolfo is also a religious skeptic. How can Barack say he’s a Christian when Rodolfo believes in evolution? Now Barack has to apologize and give a speech on why Rodolfo thinks Intelligent Design is not science.

Rodolfo said...

Ya I'm out too Greybeard. This really won't help me get my certificate you know what I mean? Politics and Turbines simply don't mix. lol.

Hope you and the rest of your readers have a great weekend. Be safe out there.