22 October 2008


Why is it still in question?

Thanks to OPD.


rodolfo said...

This the best you can come up with? This is the October Surprise?

The expert in this video is a 9/11 truth-denier. A leading conspiracy theorist that claims George Bush was the mastermind behind the attacks of September 11.

The facts about Obama's birth and citizenship are on public record. This is another stunt and you know it.

John said...

Oh my. Damn, I'd better go get my absentee ballot out of the box and change it real quick.


Greybeard said...

Now, your turn to accept a wager, John:
The polls favor Obama now, some of them by double digits. I'll wager with you most all the battleground states are within the margin of error by election eve. It's my opinion the polls, most run by liberals, have been skewed to affect voters emotions and make them feel Obama's election is inevitable.

We know CBS lies about conservatives.
We know the NYT is now a democrat mouthpiece.
Same with the LA Times/Chicago Trib.
Who would ever have thought the general public would be in a position to doubt everything we read or hear in our media?

I don't trust Snopes.
If you have actually watched the video, the attorney trying to get a response from Obama says factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg people... another liberal bastion.

Who do we trust?
Where are we headed?
Liberals are trying to shut down talk radio. When/if that happens, the feces will hit the fan.

What a sad state of affairs.

rodolfo said...

Annenberg people? The same Annenberg people that was mentioned in the third debate? The ones that *funded* former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers? The same Annenberg people who also happened to be Republicans and were personal friends with Ronald Reagan!?!?!

You can't even trust members of your own team anymore. Get a grip, man.

John said...

Well, I can't really argue with you there, GB. I don't trust these polls either. This election is not a foregone conclusion, which is why everyone needs to go vote (for change, I hope). I did watch the entire video...first time I'd heard these accusations. Admittedly, Snopes isn't the final word on issues, just the first good smack down of the arguments I found. But, I kinda doubt they are part of the vast left wing conspiracy.

However, I do think this is a deflection of attention from the important stuff...and that the McCain camp is on the ropes, and grasping at straws. Its easier to spread lies and twist words than talk about issues.

But, look on the bright side: it can't get much worse, no matter who wins.

Scoon said...

Thank you Rodolfo for having enough knowledge to point out such things. I am not in the US myself so am a bit at a loss to have any firsthand knowledge of certain things.

Frankly I'll be happier when this is all over and we can go back to reading posts about flying. (Maybe some Army stories, if it's not too personal a thing to ask for).

Scoon said...

Actually one more point. Maybe I'm missing something, but it does seem blindingly obvious that if the birth certificate was fake that (at least) one of the following would have happened:

1) His own party would have denounced him
2) The opposition would have denounced him
3) The US body responsible for overseeing the registration of political candidates would have de-registered him
4) The media would have run with the scandal enough that the allegations would have been proven sufficiently that he would be 'outed', and would have been thrown out of his party/resigned due to:
6) Public pressure, or
7) Pressure from his party, or
8) Legal action.

And I could go on ad nauseum.

I'm sorry, but Occam's razor really needs to be used here. Either this is the most elaborately concocted conspiracy in the history of mankind, or (far more likely):

**The birth certificate is real**

It almost seems like you're bordering on paranoia here, Greybeard.

Not to mention that the Hawaiian authorities have already confirmed its authenticity:

From Politifact.com:

When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

“It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.

Scoon said...

Actually, more to the point - if the US birth certificate is fake, why has nobody been able to produce a Kenyan one? I haven't heard the slightest peep about that - the key piece of evidence which could so easily prove him wrong in an instant, easily obtainable and unquestionable.

Hmmm. I wonder why nobody's thought of that? Strange...

Greybeard said...

Ever been to Hawaii, Scoon?
Do you know the politics practiced there?
I do... solidly (concrete!) democrat.
You really don't understand our politics at all, do you?
(Go to google and research "Chicago Machine Politics"). BHO is from Chicago and that's the political game bein' played here.

And I tried to click on your name to come to your blog and read some Army stories...

Greybeard said...

And to all:
I'm irritated when you ask the question...
"It would be so simple. Why..."
When that information is included in the video or text of the post.
READ and LISTEN before commenting, please.

Ward Bush said...

I should probably finish watching the video, and maybe checking snopes, but I've gotta say: the argument that "even if he _was_ born in Honolulu, he's not a natural born citizen because he became an Indonesian" is wrong. (the fact that Berg doesn't seem to know how the citizenship laws work is a bit odd, isn't it?)

I was born in Seattle, but my dad moved to Vancouver (Canada) when I was 4. When I was 40, I finally decided to get my Canadian citizenship, but there was no way I was going to give up my American citizenship, so I found out a bit about how dual-citizenship works.

Becoming a citizen of another country does NOT automatically cause you to lose your US citizenship. You have to do something specifically to renounce your citizenship - ie sign a declaration that you are giving it up. _And_ it has to be something you intend to do, e.g. there was a case where a person signed a declaration giving up their citizenship, but the Court ruled it didn't count because the person had to sign it to get the other citizenship.

This is all well-established case law, and it amounts to: if you're a US Citizen, you don't lose that as a side effect of some other citizenship change - you have to take deliberate action with the intention of giving it up. The fact that a lawyer who is allowed to argue before the Supreme Court doesn't know this _does_ make everything he says highly suspect. If he can't get it right about something he's obviously interested in, isn't it likely that he's got other stuff wrong?

Greybeard said...

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, Ward.
I also know there are countries that DO NOT allow dual citizenship.
Berg doesn't address that, so I don't know if Indonesia is one of them.

I do know that there are MANY questions about the seal on this birth certificate, and those questions should have been resolved before now.

Scoon said...

If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

Somehow, I find it strange that none of your comments addressed the above, greybeard. Neither did your video. I guess you're not too big on understanding your political system yourself.

Greybeard said...

You're the expert that didn't know who Jimmy Carter was, right?

Scoon said...

Actually Greybeard, I'm the guy who didn't recognise Jimmy Carter.

I didn't know you were illiterate. Maybe you just didn't bother to read my comments.

I'll be quite surprised if you even bother to let this one be posted.

Too bad the republicans don't have the same control over the media as you do your blog, although I'm sure they want to.

Greybeard said...

Illiterate, Scoon...
I can read 'em, but sometimes I'm unable to understand 'em.